Salaries - and disclosing them

I am curious about salaries in Russia and FSU countries. I received a letter where one woman has stated this already to me. I find it strange since I would not think it is something you would mention near the start of a relationship.

She is a doctor- therapist, in a local hospital and earns 300.00 a month.
Not sure what dollars these are Russian or American, it was not stated.

I know you cannot compare one country to another, but wonder at what is consider normal for these countries.

Also if disclosing would be considered proper by a Russian wowan.

<div class="quote">Fireeater said:</div><div class="quotetext">She is a doctor- therapist, in a local hospital and earns 300.00 a month. Not sure what dollars these are Russian or American, it was not stated.</div>
It's US$'s. 300 rubles wouldn't pay for lunch at a cheap sushi bar.
FWIW, that's a pretty average salary for doctor in the provinces. Most 'augment' their incomes or they wouldn't survive.

<div class="quote">Quote:</div><div class="quotetext">I know you cannot compare one country to another, but wonder at what is consider normal for these countries.</div>
IME, Russians are not particularly secretive about what they earn so I don't think revealing her earnings to you is significant of anything other than the fact that she wants you to know she's not rich!

<div class="quote">Quote:</div><div class="quotetext">Also if disclosing would be considered proper by a Russian woman.</div>

I knew what my wife earned within weeks of first being in contact with her. So no, I don't think it's 'improper.' Hellen may of course contradict me!

FWIW, people do not feel the same about revealing their earnings, even in the UK and Europe. I've never made a secret of mine; about US$90,000 last year.

Personally, I'm a bit suspicious of people who keep their earnings a secret. It makes me wonder what they're trying to hide...

<div class="quote">Gorky Guy said:</div><div class="quotetext"><div class="quote">Fireeater said:</div><div class="quotetext">She is a doctor- therapist, in a local hospital and earns 300.00 a month. Not sure what dollars these are Russian or American, it was not stated.</div>
It's US$'s. 300 rubles wouldn't pay for lunch at a cheap sushi bar.
FWIW, that's a pretty average salary for doctor in the provinces. Most 'augment' their incomes or they wouldn't survive.

<div class="quote">Quote:</div><div class="quotetext">I know you cannot compare one country to another, but wonder at what is consider normal for these countries.</div>
IME, Russians are not particularly secretive about what they earn so I don't think revealing her earnings to you is significant of anything other than the fact that she wants you to know she's not rich!

<div class="quote">Quote:</div><div class="quotetext">Also if disclosing would be considered proper by a Russian woman.</div>

I knew what my wife earned within weeks of first being in contact with her. So no, I don't think it's 'improper.' Hellen may of course contradict me!

FWIW, people do not feel the same about revealing their earnings, even in the UK and Europe. I've never made a secret of mine; about US$90,000 last year.

Personally, I'm a bit suspicious of people who keep their earnings a secret. It makes me wonder what they're trying to hide...
</div>

Well considering in most of my talks with women this subject is one that has not come up it made me think. In one sense what does the salary really mean, if you do not have a connection with the other. Is not the realtionship more important then money. And you can determine both sides by other things they say during talks. If you read bewteen the lines.

But keeping you earnings a secert, sometimes is a wise choice for men.
Try posting a profile with two different occupations. One as a normal one and another as CEO. Amazing the differences and volume you receive from women. And the normal one could mean the same type of man as a CEO. So it is money not the man abitilties they are seeing.

It can make a difference between does she want your money
or you

<div class="quote">Gorky Guy said:</div><div class="quotetext">
I knew what my wife earned within weeks of first being in contact with her. So no, I don't think it's 'improper.' Hellen may of course contradict me!

FWIW, people do not feel the same about revealing their earnings, even in the UK and Europe. I've never made a secret of mine; about US$90,000 last year.

Personally, I'm a bit suspicious of people who keep their earnings a secret. It makes me wonder what they're trying to hide...
</div>

<shrug> Why should I "contradict"? I don't think that it's "improper" for woman to inform a man who she is going "to date" how much she earns .
Because very often foreigner males "forgot" WHERE exactly they are trying to look for wives and therefore somehow try to behave that way they used to do with their emansipe western women wo earnes the same like thoe males ( or more) -So counting to get "femine" woman they in the same time start to offer to come to his country or advice to meet at some resort ( on her own expence of course) , "forget" to pay for his food if she was silly enough to offer him a place in her flat, separated bills pop in restaurants... no free martini because her flat costs millions ..ooops I digressed on personal thoughts Sorry

Anyway I would say "that's not a business of yours" if I got a question how much I earns..
But that's my personal opinion as I am not looking for a man who could support family in future life.

<div class="quote">Fireeater said:</div><div class="quotetext">
So it is money not the man abitilties they are seeing.
</div>

What exactly "abilities"? just curiouse

<div class="quote">Hellen said:</div><div class="quotetext"><div class="quote">Fireeater said:</div><div class="quotetext">
So it is money not the man abitilties they are seeing.
</div>

What exactly "abilities"? just curiouse</div>

That other professions also have those correct abilities for being a good provider, dealing with serious problems, being mature when needed. That they are also a good man for her. That intelligence can also be found in other areas, since part of being intelligent is how you use it.

Even more so he may also be there for the children, as a father. To be part of their life, as they move forward in life. But even more they are part of their wife's life. Will give that attention to her, that she should have on a daily basis. Because she is that partner in his life that is more important then any thing else.

Abilities come in many forms, from repairs around the home, to being a father, a husband, a lover (to her only), a worker, personality, views on life, and I am sure you could add many more to the list. How does one define all the good abilities in either the man or the woman.

Hard to actually say in general as each man has his own to offer. But money I do not think should ever be the driving force, for finding the right one. If one wishes the marriage to last.

<div class="quote">Hellen said:</div><div class="quotetext"><div class="quote">Gorky Guy said:</div><div class="quotetext">
I knew what my wife earned within weeks of first being in contact with her. So no, I don't think it's 'improper.' Hellen may of course contradict me!

FWIW, people do not feel the same about revealing their earnings, even in the UK and Europe. I've never made a secret of mine; about US$90,000 last year.

Personally, I'm a bit suspicious of people who keep their earnings a secret. It makes me wonder what they're trying to hide...
</div>

<shrug> Why should I "contradict"? I don't think that it's "improper" for woman to inform a man who she is going "to date" how much she earns .
Because very often foreigner males "forgot" WHERE exactly they are trying to look for wives and therefore somehow try to behave that way they used to do with their emansipe western women wo earnes the same like thoe males ( or more) -So counting to get "femine" woman they in the same time start to offer to come to his country or advice to meet at some resort ( on her own expence of course) , "forget" to pay for his food if she was silly enough to offer him a place in her flat, separated bills pop in restaurants... no free martini because her flat costs millions ..ooops I digressed on personal thoughts Sorry

Anyway I would say "that's not a business of yours" if I got a question how much I earns..
But that's my personal opinion as I am not looking for a man who could support family in future life.</div>

Your post made me laugh at some of your remarks, and the way you said them.

But as a man looking.

One: I would never ask that question of the woman. You have no way on really knowing what her actually status is for her income. She may be poor or she may be well off, or some where in between.
Two: I would never ask her to meet me first, at some other place, that would be at her suggestion. I would perfer to meet her in her home city.
Three: If I was so lucky to stay at her place, I would not pay for the food she provided. But would suggest we go shopping for it, and pay that way.
Four: Maybe I am old fashioned, but usually when taking her out on a date the man would pay for this without question.
Five: Do not drink martinis, so she would be safe.

So for me I never forget where she is located, but it also does not mean she is improvished either.

<div class="quote">Fireeater said:</div><div class="quotetext">
Also if disclosing would be considered proper by a Russian wowan.</div>

I do not think it really matters, but that is me. In the past I asked women their income, and also I told them that they did not have to tell me if they considered the question improper. In any case, when I visit a woman I am the one who pays everything, regardless of their income. The occassions I was fortunate to stay in their home/ flat, I gave them money "in lieu" of the hotel expenses, and I also I gave them money for any food expenses and I paid for food at restaurants, transportation, entertainment, etc. When a Russian woman says or writes that they expect a man to be reliable, I think that is what they mean.

Could it be she is or will be asking you for money or playing the " guilt " game .
My Russian lady makes $250 U.S. a month . I give her $400 more monthly to make her life more comfortable . That extra monthly $400 has changed her life , she is very grateful for it .

<div class="quote">Fireeater said:</div><div class="quotetext"><div class="quote">Hellen said:</div><div class="quotetext"><div class="quote">Fireeater said:</div><div class="quotetext">
So it is money not the man abitilties they are seeing.
</div>

What exactly "abilities"? just curiouse</div>

That other professions also have those correct abilities for being a good provider, dealing with serious problems, being mature when needed. That they are also a good man for her. That intelligence can also be found in other areas, since part of being intelligent is how you use it.

Even more so he may also be there for the children, as a father. To be part of their life, as they move forward in life. But even more they are part of their wife's life. Will give that attention to her, that she should have on a daily basis. Because she is that partner in his life that is more important then any thing else.

Abilities come in many forms, from repairs around the home, to being a father, a husband, a lover (to her only), a worker, personality, views on life, and I am sure you could add many more to the list. How does one define all the good abilities in either the man or the woman.

Hard to actually say in general as each man has his own to offer. But money I do not think should ever be the driving force, for finding the right one. If one wishes the marriage to last. </div>

IMHO Whatever abilities "he" would possess "she" could find out them only later. But before she started to spend/waste time on him his income is one of the main his "parametres" . Nobody wishes to appear in alient country and be depened on a man who does not gain enough. ( especially if a woman has to move abroad with a child) "Paradise in a cabin" is a only for 20 years old naive girls - there are little of them ( "naive" I mean) in dating business. Though "enough" is depended thing. But that "enough" always presents in females' minds

<div class="quote">Fireeater said:</div><div class="quotetext">
But as a man looking.

One: blah-blah.. promices.. promices...
Two: blah-blah.. promices.. promices...
Three: blah-blah.. promices.. promices...
Four: blah-blah.. promices.. promices...
Five: one more male' excuse not to pay

So for me I never forget where she is located, but it also does not mean she is improvished either. </div>
well I never happened to hear something opposite at internet boards .. so I could only wonder where all those stories about meetingin reality I read at lovely AD forum come from
Look at that Here is a profile girls have been discussing lately

<span style="color: blue">IMPORTANT NOTICE TO SCAMMERS AND TIME WASTERS:

DON'T EVEN TRY ME.I WON'T SEND YOU MONEY!!!
YOU WOULD SIMPLY WASTE YOUR TIME AND MOST IMPORTANT...MINE !
TO THE ATTENTION OF THE RUSSIAN CROOKS: I WON'T HELP WITH MONEY FOR YOUR PASSPORT, TRAVEL TICKET, OR ANYTHING ELSE.
SOME OF YOU ALREADY TRIED - STILL RECENTLY (OLGA, SVETLANA, etc...)- BUT ...FAILED EACH TIME.

HOWEVER I WOULD STILL BE SO PLEASED TO MEET A RUSSIAN OR UKRAINIAN LADY IN PARIS...BUT ONLY A GENUINE AND INDEPENDANT ONE WHO CAN MANAGE TO COME TO ME BY HER OWN MEANS! </span>

Was not it yours for a chance ?

<div class="quote">Hellen said:</div><div class="quotetext"><div class="quote">Fireeater said:</div><div class="quotetext">
But as a man looking.

One: blah-blah.. promices.. promices...
Two: blah-blah.. promices.. promices...
Three: blah-blah.. promices.. promices...
Four: blah-blah.. promices.. promices...
Five: one more male' excuse not to pay

So for me I never forget where she is located, but it also does not mean she is improvished either. </div>
well I never happened to hear something opposite at internet boards .. so I could only wonder where all those stories about meetingin reality I read at lovely AD forum come from
Look at that Here is a profile girls have been discussing lately

<span style="color: blue">IMPORTANT NOTICE TO SCAMMERS AND TIME WASTERS:

DON'T EVEN TRY ME.I WON'T SEND YOU MONEY!!!
YOU WOULD SIMPLY WASTE YOUR TIME AND MOST IMPORTANT...MINE !
TO THE ATTENTION OF THE RUSSIAN CROOKS: I WON'T HELP WITH MONEY FOR YOUR PASSPORT, TRAVEL TICKET, OR ANYTHING ELSE.
SOME OF YOU ALREADY TRIED - STILL RECENTLY (OLGA, SVETLANA, etc...)- BUT ...FAILED EACH TIME.

HOWEVER I WOULD STILL BE SO PLEASED TO MEET A RUSSIAN OR UKRAINIAN LADY IN PARIS...BUT ONLY A GENUINE AND INDEPENDANT ONE WHO CAN MANAGE TO COME TO ME BY HER OWN MEANS! </span>

Was not it yours for a chance ? </div>

Sorry not mine, instead of sending money I would go to her.

Maybe you shoud expand on this to let men know what you are talking about.

<div class="quote">Hellen said:</div><div class="quotetext"><div class="quote">Fireeater said:</div><div class="quotetext"><div class="quote">Hellen said:</div><div class="quotetext"><div class="quote">Fireeater said:</div><div class="quotetext">
So it is money not the man abitilties they are seeing.
</div>

What exactly "abilities"? just curiouse</div>

That other professions also have those correct abilities for being a good provider, dealing with serious problems, being mature when needed. That they are also a good man for her. That intelligence can also be found in other areas, since part of being intelligent is how you use it.

Even more so he may also be there for the children, as a father. To be part of their life, as they move forward in life. But even more they are part of their wife's life. Will give that attention to her, that she should have on a daily basis. Because she is that partner in his life that is more important then any thing else.

Abilities come in many forms, from repairs around the home, to being a father, a husband, a lover (to her only), a worker, personality, views on life, and I am sure you could add many more to the list. How does one define all the good abilities in either the man or the woman.

Hard to actually say in general as each man has his own to offer. But money I do not think should ever be the driving force, for finding the right one. If one wishes the marriage to last. </div>

IMHO Whatever abilities "he" would possess "she" could find out them only later. But before she started to spend/waste time on him his income is one of the main his "parametres" . Nobody wishes to appear in alient country and be depened on a man who does not gain enough. ( especially if a woman has to move abroad with a child) "Paradise in a cabin" is a only for 20 years old naive girls - there are little of them ( "naive" I mean) in dating business. Though "enough" is depended thing. But that "enough" always presents in females' minds</div>

True, a woman needs to know the man will provide for her, when she arrives, even more so if children are envolved. It is something I always have in the back of my mind when talking to one. I look for this in her notes, as it is a way to determine if she is truely serious.
Even what she will do, if she is not working here and has nothing else to do, meaning children to raise.

But you know she may end up in the "cabin" in the woods, since it is in my plans to retire to one, on one of our 250,000 lakes here.
But that depends on also on their input to this, if I find her.

But she will find out about some of those abilities in talking to him, and in meeting him at some point. Probably a few meetings, it would take a year for her to be able to come here at the minium for my country.

But you see men also run into woman who expect a lavish lifestyle, one that is immaterial to the actual relationship. Those CEO profiles had no picture, so money is the objective, with divorce following soon afterward.
Since love is not in the equation. Something that DD keeps running into as well, why do you think he is feeling down.

A man wants to know she wants him, not what he will "give" her.

<div class="quote">Palmolive said:</div><div class="quotetext">Could it be she is or will be asking you for money or playing the " guilt " game .
My Russian lady makes $250 U.S. a month . I give her $400 more monthly to make her life more comfortable . That extra monthly $400 has changed her life , she is very grateful for it .</div>

Could be, I will find out as we progress. Considering we have just started taking and this was in her first note.

I have no objection to gving her some extra to make her life better. But only after we have had a meeting and know we are moving forward to marriage for the right reasons.

<div class="quote">Fireeater said:</div><div class="quotetext">
Sorry not mine, instead of sending money I would go to her.

Maybe you shoud expand on this to let men know what you are talking about. </div>

I am talking about what girls could find in males's profiles - "only those Rusian/Ukrainian woman who can manage to come to Paris by her own means would decerve my attention".

So Russian girls wonder is it "normal" for foreigner men ( because they just used that western women pay for anything) or foreigner males have not idea how much average woman could gain or those foreigner males are just screwed in their minds to expect/(demand actually) that from Russian women

<div class="quote">Hellen said:</div><div class="quotetext"><div class="quote">Fireeater said:</div><div class="quotetext">
Sorry not mine, instead of sending money I would go to her.

Maybe you shoud expand on this to let men know what you are talking about. </div>

I am talking about what girls could find in males's profiles - "only those Rusian/Ukrainian woman who can manage to come to Paris by her own means would decerve my attention".

So Russian girls wonder is it "normal" for foreigner men ( because they just used that western women pay for anything) or foreigner males have not idea how much average woman could gain or those foreigner males are just screwed in their minds to expect/(demand actually) that from Russian women</div>

My belief is they are "screwed" in their minds. Maybe just looking for a "sex" trip, but not actual marriage with her.

Putting something like that in you profile would immediatley lower any chance of finding a woman for an actual marriage.

A woman may suggest meeting in a neutral country, but in that case I think she should pay her way there. It is her idea, not his. If things work out then her only expense may be that travel cost. But she should be sure of meeting him first. There is no guanttee for this from either side, at a first meeting.
And women do travel in your country, this I have read in profiles, and in talking to some. But the bigger expense is still usually on the man, if it is from this side of the ocean. If from Euorpe that is a different story. Travelling around Europe or to places like Turkey, (which seems to be popular) would be like me going to Florida here. The major expense is when you get there, and how long you stay. But I am talking about a first meeting, not a second or third. By then a man may not mind paying for her travel, since it is a different relationship by then.

<div class="quote">Fireeater said:</div><div class="quotetext"><div class="quote">Hellen said:</div><div class="quotetext"><div class="quote">Fireeater said:</div><div class="quotetext">
But as a man looking.

One: blah-blah.. promices.. promices...
Two: blah-blah.. promices.. promices...
Three: blah-blah.. promices.. promices...
Four: blah-blah.. promices.. promices...
Five: one more male' excuse not to pay

So for me I never forget where she is located, but it also does not mean she is improvished either. </div>
well I never happened to hear something opposite at internet boards .. so I could only wonder where all those stories about meetingin reality I read at lovely AD forum come from
Look at that Here is a profile girls have been discussing lately

<span style="color: blue">IMPORTANT NOTICE TO SCAMMERS AND TIME WASTERS:

DON'T EVEN TRY ME.I WON'T SEND YOU MONEY!!!
YOU WOULD SIMPLY WASTE YOUR TIME AND MOST IMPORTANT...MINE !
TO THE ATTENTION OF THE RUSSIAN CROOKS: I WON'T HELP WITH MONEY FOR YOUR PASSPORT, TRAVEL TICKET, OR ANYTHING ELSE.
SOME OF YOU ALREADY TRIED - STILL RECENTLY (OLGA, SVETLANA, etc...)- BUT ...FAILED EACH TIME.

HOWEVER I WOULD STILL BE SO PLEASED TO MEET A RUSSIAN OR UKRAINIAN LADY IN PARIS...BUT ONLY A GENUINE AND INDEPENDANT ONE WHO CAN MANAGE TO COME TO ME BY HER OWN MEANS! </span>

Was not it yours for a chance ? </div>

Sorry not mine, instead of sending money I would go to her.

Maybe you shoud expand on this to let men know what you are talking about. </div>

Interesting reading at Antidate, I have always wondered at some of the games men play with the women.

Interesting very few from my country listed, seems the worst area is Euorpe. The area most Russian women seem to perfer to be closer to home.

Maybe man should also have a black list, of women who also play those games. Scammers are in a different category from that.

Will have to go back and translate some more at a later date

What is a Genuine Russian Woman?

I wanted to take a moment to re-visit this whole idea of what makes up a “Genuine Russian Woman”. You have to understand that one of the most important ways to categorize women from a man’s perspective is to know if she is a “Supporter” or a “Competitor”.

When I describe things at this deeper level we can for now just completely ignore nationalities… Russian Girl, American Girl or Andromeda Galaxy Girl.. makes no difference because the fundamentals are all the same.

So, let me cut to the MOST IMPORTANT fundamental thing you need to know..

ALL WOMEN are walking Baby Making Machines…

(And if any woman you currently know wants to TRY to deny or de-emphasize this then they are completely full of big dog do do. Try to imagine you as a guy wanting to deny that you have a D*CK! It doesn’t work too well does it?)

“Supporter” Women are completely in touch with this “baby making machinery” reality.

They understand that to make the BEST Babies requires the BEST Husbands with the BEST Loving Environment possible. When you read a common Internet agency or Dating site profile on any number of Russian girls how often have you seen the phrase, “I want to make a happy family”. I’m willing to bet that you’ve seen this or a variation of it quite a few times. Now .. does it get any more obvious then this?

These women did NOT say..

“I want to be a liberated and sexually free woman who focuses on MY CAREER so that I can screw myself out of the most fertile years of my life and then go to an expensive pregnancy clinic covered by my health plan during my mid to late 30’s in order to try and get my older and deteriorating eggs artificially inseminated with some anonymous guy’s sperm de-thawed from a test tube.”

Do you need me to continue with this wonderful illustration? I don’t think so..

Women who are in-touch with their inner “baby making machinery” don’t mess around my friends. They want what you want too.. Love, Stability, Understanding, Sex, Good Future and Family.. AND they are more honest about it as well.

Now this doesn’t mean that you are going to be able to Russia or the FSU and tell a girl like this right away that you love her “so let’s get hitched and make babies now!” No but you will still need to play the game of love… And it’s there for a very good reason too. She needs to know you respect her BUT at the same time she needs to know that you are not afraid to be a leader who will keep the family ship on course come hell or high water.

I’m not going to bullsh*t you cause most of the time this is a real challenge to pull off but with time and experience you will understand why and how you can hit the right triggers to spark the right magic.

There are women all around the world that fit this qualification of understanding their “inner baby making machinery” but I am focusing primarily on Russian women because they not only deeply have these qualities but a big percentage of them are incredibly beautiful too!

So hopefully you get a sense for what a genuine Russian Woman is… It’s not so hard eh?

If you are around one and you feel that baby making machine speculating through her behavior towards you then that’s all you really need to know. She shows respect to herself because she honors the awesome power of that machine within her. The way she also behaves towards you as a man will also directly reflect this and it is the BEST way for you to discover what a Genuine Russian Woman is.. or isn’t..

Note: When you have a quiet moment I want you to seriously close your eyes and imagine what the woman I’m talking about looks, sounds, and feels like.. because this will help you answer this question in more ways then you can possibly imagine.

Now because we are spending lots of energy talking about motherhood and family this doesn’t mean that you or her are expected to create a kid production factory any time soon. It just means that when it does happen, having children along with her marriage to you will BE THE DEFINING moment of her life… as it should be for you guys too.

From marriage to conception to birth to raising children.. Her ability to be a woman, a mother and a wife is her “Prime Directive”. If you as a Man truly wants to know what a Genuine Russian Woman is at her deepest level then you must ultimately walk this life long path with her since your answer will only grow more profound with time.

If you’ve ever seen the way Russian mothers take care of their kids you would completely understand what I mean. To me there is no comparision anywhere else in the world with the simple, loving and powerful motherly energy they project.. If any of you Men are a little like me.. and if you are fortunate to see and FEEL this yourself.. you will probably stand back in complete awe and realize that you are most likely witnessing one of the most beautiful and loving manifestations in all of the creation.

And you will never forget it.

What is a Genuine Russian Woman?